For someone just 29 – really, yes, he is so young – Lakeith Stanfield has a face that can be described as “tired of the world”. Perhaps this results from your eyes, which harbor an intensity that challenges you not to look away. Or maybe it’s your confident sense of style. When we talked at Zoom in early February, just after the premiere of his last film at Sundance, Judas and the Black Messiah, he wore a nice overcoat, plaid pants and a knitted hat. Or perhaps that feeling of being eroded by the exhausting society that surrounds us emanates from Stanfield’s career choices. Since his feature debut in Short term 12, which debuted in 2013, Stanfield played ping pong from a modern-day zombified slave in Get out, for a young civil rights activist convicted in Selma, for an eccentric stranger in Atlanta, for a struggling office worker who finds himself in a wild conspiracy in Sorry to bother you.
Directed by Shaka King, Judas and the Black Messiah stars Daniel Kaluuya as Black Panther leader Fred Hampton and Stanfield as William O’Neal, the informant who sold Hampton to the FBI, leading to Hampton’s death at age 21. The real O’Neal died of suicide on January 15, 1990 – the same day that his first interview about his role in Hampton’s death aired.
Stanfield gave some … unique interviews in the past, just as he spoke carefully about all kinds of things in others, so I didn’t know which Stanfield I was going to get. The conversation was condensed and edited for clarity.
Allegra Frank: I’m curious about your preparation for this role, especially since you are known for your really idiosyncratic performances. When you are someone who has existed and has a very complicated history, how does this affect your ability to inhabit the role?
Lakeith Stanfield: In every way, because that was a unique challenge. As I assumed it would be, but I don’t think I really understood the extent to which, initially. The most difficult part for me is probably doing it my way, in my own judgments of the character and allowing space to be able to see him as a complete human being. I didn’t want to face the question of following my initial assumption, which is: “Ah, yes, he is just a whistleblower and that’s it”. I wanted to try to find the most nuanced parts of who he was, even if he didn’t show much of it. I wanted to try to bring this out, if I could.
Did you do much in terms of real historical research? Maybe even watching the With an eye on the prize II documentary that was extracted at the end? I was surprised to see O’Neal’s actual footage from that documentary included, because there were reenactments of O’Neal’s interview in the film itself. With an eye on the prize II has the only real footage available of Bill O’Neal, however, in general.
Yes. That was the only footage I had, except that I managed to get my hands on an unedited version of all of his interview segments on Keeping an eye on the prize, rather than just the small cut they made. But I watched that documentary years ago, in fact, even before I was an actor, because I just love the Black Panthers, and I was always researching them independently and just trying to understand the group more. And I inevitably came across the Illinois branch and Fred Hampton and Bill O’Neal – albeit in a small sense.
I could never have imagined that I would play him six or seven years later – more than that. I tried to derive as much as I could from this, in addition to the transcripts of his lawsuits after having that incident with Fred Hampton, and some books that were second-hand and third-hand accounts of meeting him in person and the kinds of things he liked and did . So that was useful.
Obviously, Bill O’Neal is a big presence in the film, and probably the main character of Judas, but Fred Hampton is the best known figure, especially as someone we just saw in The Chicago Trial 7. And it was difficult for me not to make an immediate comparison between this film and that one, although they are very different. I’m curious if you saw Chicago 7 and have any kind of lesson on how the Black Panthers’ movement – and the Black Panthers themselves – are shown in the media now, with these films coming out a bit close.
I didn’t see that I love Kelvin [Harrison, Jr., who played Fred Hampton in Chicago 7]. … He is a very good actor. I am happy that people are now willing to talk more about these stories that have sort of been hidden in history and often have not even been mentioned in education. It is important that we are careful with these characters. I hope to see more of this and people paying attention to details and trying to be as honest as possible about their interpretations.
Since I started acting, I wanted to make films like this and help tell stories about these great, great historical figures. So even when I did something like Selma, I felt so good about being in that space. Even if Shaka had asked me to throw the hat on O’Neal’s head, I would have done that too. Just to be a part of the story and help bring Fred’s story to the top of the conversation.
You have played many different characters throughout your career so far. Do you think there is something unifying between all these characters, in whom you were Short term 12versus versus Sorry to bother you, Atlanta, or here? What do you think is what you bring to each of these roles every time?
[Stanfield points at himself.] This face! I mean, I was just lucky to be part of stories where the characters are going through a transformation, and you can see them sort of unfolding. I could just be playing Barney in costume, which is also not wrong, but I had the opportunity to play roles that challenge me and I am able to start to dive inside and unlock certain things.
Is there anything you are really looking forward to trying to do that is completely different from what you have already done?
Now, I just want to tell a great story. I want to be part of stories that move people and that can help keep talking.
I feel that this is the best perspective when you are in this type of creative industry, enjoying the actual text you are adapting and thinking about the challenge and collaboration first, instead of just “I want to be in a Marvel movie because this is the big balcony ”or something. Which is also cool. But you want to be in the Marvel movie that also has a really challenging and interesting script and location for you.
Yes. And I want to be the villain.
Yes, I was watching this GQ video you did it months ago, when you were disguised online, and a lot of people were like, “Make him the Joker”, “Make him the Riddler”, so I’m here. Are you legitimately interested in the idea of ”Lakeith as the Joker?”
Possibly. But you know, for me, it is any character that is challenging, interesting and intelligent. And I think the Joker is all of those things. And Heath Ledger’s version of the Joker was brilliant, which I really liked. And that’s how I always imagined the Joker – just a person who has been through a lot, [someone with] this intelligence to make different decisions and also to mirror society for itself. I find these things interesting, and often more interesting than some of the heroes, so it doesn’t really matter which villain I play.
And I hope that with William O’Neal, some people who may have seen him simply as a villain can see in this interpretation that they may have similarities or some other internal issues and dialogues that may be useful to them as well.
Something I thought about when doing my research on you was how you really tell your own story. There is this perception that the public has developed of you as a calm and relaxed guy who knows himself very well. But then I also look at your social media, and you have an interesting relationship, I think, with that. It affects the idea of you as a deep thinker. But you also have a strong comic sense. I wonder how you decide which version of yourself and your own story to tell the world.
I do not know. I don’t really think about it much. I kind of do what I feel like doing. And sometimes, I feel like being silly. Sometimes I feel like not being silly. Sometimes I am offended by things and I share that. Sometimes I’m being offensive and I share that. I am just a human being and … people sometimes become a little disconnected from this reality that I am only a human being and that I am not really that deep.
And I think that on social media, you only have pieces of people. You are not understanding exactly who they are. You are just getting a little secondary expression and people are trying to derive what they can from it. … You have to understand that social media is a powerful thing. Which is somewhere that I went wrong sometimes, because I forget that people really care about what people say and do, just because I personally don’t put that into too much celebrity investment. But sometimes people understand and, therefore, there is a responsibility to be understood in this. I think you just have to use it right and not let it use you. And, often, the right way is not to be there, because, honestly, there are cooler things, like leaves and plants and other things.