Senator Ron Johnson and NBC News presenter Chuck Todd had a heated discussion on Sunday about Republicans’ efforts to challenge the Electoral College count certification during a joint session of Congress this week.
Johnson, one of at least 12 Republican senators who will object to certification on Wednesday, has contested claims that they are trying to undo the vote he gave President-elect Joe Biden 306 electoral votes against 232 for President Trump.
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“We are not acting to stop the democratic process – we are acting to protect it,” said Johnson.
“The fact is that we have an unsustainable situation in this country, where we have tens of millions of people who do not see the election results as legitimate,” said the Wisconsin Republican in “Meet the Press”.
On this December 12, 2020, archive photo of President Donald Trump walks on the south lawn of the White House in Washington before boarding Marine One. (AP Photo / Patrick Semansky, Archive)
In a statement on Saturday, Johnson and his Republican colleagues, including Sens. Ted Cruz of Texas and Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee and four new senators, said the election “presented unprecedented allegations of electoral fraud” and asked Congress to appoint a commission to conduct a 10-day audit.
“While someone is going to oppose this and we are going to take a vote, we are going to propose a solution in terms of transparency, investigation, with a commission,” said Johnson.
But Todd noted that the controversy is the result of the president and his Republican allies repeatedly alleging electoral fraud, even when the courts rejected dozens of lawsuits filed by Trump’s legal team and Republican lawmakers.
“You made a claim that there was widespread fraud, you did not offer specific evidence of that widespread fraud, but you are demanding an investigation on the basis that there are allegations of widespread fraud. Basically, you are the arsonist here. President Trump is the arsonist here,” Todd said to Johnson.
“Because you didn’t have the courage to tell the truth that this election was fair!” He continued.
But Johnson responded by saying that Todd was the “arsonist” because the mainstream media in January 2017 “abandoned any pretense of being impartial and really chose a side during the election”.
GOP SENATORS, DRIVEN BY THE CROSS, TO OBJECT TO THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE CERTIFICATION, REQUIRE EMERGENCY AUDIT
Johnson said the media threw fuel into the fire by ignoring the investigation into Hunter Biden’s business in China and Ukraine.
“Senator, fine, that’s enough,” said Todd.
“I’m sick of it, too,” said Johnson – going on to say that the media was biased against Trump.
Todd told Johnson that he and his colleagues “cannot make these claims that have not been proven true” and asked him who won in Wisconsin.
“Vice President Biden won by 20,000 votes. But there are also problems in Wisconsin,” said Johnson, continuing to question the voting systems used to count votes in the state.
During an exchange of ideas in which both were interrupted, Todd asked why he did not hold hearings on “9/11 advocates. Many people thought 9/11 was an inside job”.
“What you’re basically saying is that if there are enough people who believe in a conspiracy theory … how about landing on the moon? Are you going to hold hearings on this?”
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“There are some issues that need to be explored and investigated,” Johnson said of the 2020 election.
Todd, at the end of the interview, thanked Johnson for coming because “only two of his colleagues had the courage to say yes this weekend about this conspiracy theory you are working on”.