Major social platforms have been cracking down on the spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories before the presidential election, and have expanded their efforts after the January 6 Capitol rebellion. But Apple and Google, among others, left a big gap open for this material: podcasts.
The podcasts offered by the two Big Tech companies allow you to enter the world of QAnon conspiracy theory, immerse yourself in President Donald Trump’s false claims of a stolen election and indulge in other extremism. Accounts that have been banned from social networks for electoral misinformation, threats or bullying and breaking other rules also remain alive as podcasts available on the platforms of technology giants.
Conspiracy theorists sold stolen electoral fantasies, conspiracies against the coronavirus and violent rhetoric. One podcaster, RedPill78, called the Capitol siege an “staged event” in a January 11 episode of Red Pill News. The day before the Capitol riot, a more popular podcast, the X22 Report, spoke confidently of Trump’s second term, explained that Trump would need to “remove” many members of Congress to promote his plans and said, “We, the people , we are the storm, and we are going to DC. ”
Both are available on the podcast platforms from Apple and Google.
Podcasting “plays a particularly disproportionate role” in the spread of white supremacy, said one 2018 Report of the Anti-Defamation League. Many white supremacists, like QAnon supporters, support Trump. Podcasting is an intimate and humanizing mode of communication that allows extremists to expose their ideas for hours on end, said Oren Segal of the ADL Extremism Center.
Elsewhere on social media, Twitter, Facebook and Youtube have cracked down on accounts that amplify QAnon’s baseless claims that Trump is fighting deep-state enemies and cannibals who operate a child trafficking ring. A major radio company, Cumulus, told its hosts to lessen the rhetoric about stolen elections and violent uprisings or the risk of termination, although it is not clear what impact this saying had.
Google-owned YouTube canceled Bannon’s War Room, a channel run by loyal Trump, Steve Bannon, on January 8, after he spread false electoral allegations and asked for the beheading of Dr. Anthony Fauci, the largest infectious disease specialist from the USA. But podcast versions of Bannon’s show are live on Apple and Google. Spotify withdrew it in November, according to one of its hosts.
“Podcasts filled with hate and incitement to violence should not be treated any differently than any other content,” said Segal. “If you are going to take a strong stance against hatred and extremism on the platform in any way, it must be comprehensive.”
Apple, Spotify and Google organize lists of the best podcasts and recommend them to users. Apple and Spotify are the dominant players in the United States, with other players far behind, said Dave Zohrob, CEO of chartable podcast analytics firm. Despite its name being recognized, Google remains a small presence.
Spotify said it removes podcasts that violate its policies against hate speech, copyright violations or violate any laws, using “human and algorithmic detection measures” to identify the violations. Apple Guidelines prohibit content that is illegal or promotes violence, overt sex or drugs or is “deemed obscene, questionable or in bad taste”. Apple did not respond to repeated questions about its content or moderation guidelines.
Google declined to explain the discrepancy between what is available on YouTube and what is on Google Podcasts, saying only that its podcast service “indexes audio available on the web” in the same way that its search engine indexes web pages. The company said it removes podcasts from its platform “in very rare circumstances, largely guided by local law.”
X22 Report and Bannon’s War Room ranked 20th and 32nd on the list of Apple’s best podcasts on Friday. (Experts say this list measures the momentum of a podcast, not the total number of listeners.) The X22 Report said in October that it was suspended by YouTube and Spotify and last week by Twitter. It is also no longer available on Facebook. It is supported by advertisements for products such as survival foods, unlicensed dietary supplements and gold coins, which pass before and during podcasts.
The Red Pill News website said that YouTube banned its videos in October and that a Twitter suspension ensued. The podcast is available on Apple and Google, but not on Spotify.
Several QAnon proponents affected by the crackdown sued YouTube in October, calling its actions “massive desplatforms”. Plaintiffs include Report X22, RedPill78 and David Hayes, who directs another conspiracy podcast called Praying Medic that is available on Apple and Google, but not on Spotify.
Melody Torres, who does podcasts on SoulWarrior Uncensored, identifies herself as a longtime follower of QAnon and said in a recent episode that her podcast is “just my way of not being censored”. She said she was kicked out of Twitter in January and Instagram four times last year. She currently has Instagram, Facebook and YouTube accounts; its podcast is available on Spotify, Apple and Google.
X22 Report, RedPill78 and Hayes did not respond to requests for comments sent through their websites. Torres did not respond to a Facebook message.
Podcasts suffer from the same misinformation problem as other platforms, said Shane Creevey, editorial head of Kinzen, a startup created by former Facebook and Twitter executives that offers a disinformation tracker for companies, including some that host or organize podcasts.
Creevey points out that it is more difficult to analyze misinformation of video and audio than of text. Podcasts can also run for hours, making them difficult to monitor. And podcasting has additional challenges, as there are no reliable statistics about its audience, as opposed to a YouTube stream, which shows views, or a tweet or post on Facebook, which shows likes and shares, Creevey said.
But some argue that technology companies’ moderation is opaque and inconsistent, creating a new set of problems. The censorship “goes with the flow against what’s popular at any time,” said Jillian York, an expert at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital rights group. Now, she said, “this tide is against the speech of right-wing extremists … but tomorrow the tide may be against opposition activists”.
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David Hamilton, editor of AP Technology, contributed to this article.