When Dr. Anthony Fauci and Sunday Morning special contributor Ted Koppel first met on camera, remote interviews were still a novelty and the nation was fixated on a global epidemic called HIV-AIDS. Koppel, then from ABC’s “Nightline”, asked Fauci: “How optimistic are you about some kind of vaccine?”
“Two vaccines are in phase one of the tests to determine safety, but it won’t be well in the 1990s, if we are lucky enough, to have a vaccine. It won’t be at least until 1995,” he replied.
Even 33 years ago, Fauci had a large number of national followers, but mainly among AIDS activists, who were often highly critical; and he had not yet inspired any video, t-shirt, coffee mug or suggestion of impending sanctity, as he did recently.
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“Oh, my God,” said Fauci, when shown a particularly holy portrait of himself. “My nuns in Our Lady of Guadalupe, Brooklyn, would be turning over in your grave when they see this!”
There are also other types of Fauci artifacts:
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And then there’s a video from Sinclair Broadcasting on July 22, “America This Week”, in which a former researcher on chronic fatigue syndrome, Dr. Judy Mikovits, said: “I believe that Dr. Fauci made the coronaviruses. ”
“You know, Ted, I think this is a dramatic example of the division in our country,” said Fauci. “We had a complete distortion and a discard of facts and scientific evidence. And a certain part of the country believed in the hoax aspect, the false news aspect.
“The other half was the desire for clarity, the desire for facts, the desire for truth. So, for better or worse, for one reason or another, I became a symbol that was unreal. Like Saint Anthony. You know, it’s kind of, okay, great, but that’s not reality.
“On the other hand, I had people who threatened my life because I am talking about public health measures,” said Fauci.
Koppel said, “We have a video of you and your wife walking with a security detachment. Did it come to that?”
“Yes. Yes. It got to that point. I caused so much animosity that I have to have federal agents, armed federal agents, with me, like, all the time.”
“Were your children threatened?”
“I must say that I am not afraid of myself, by myself,” said Fauci. “But what really disturbs me is the harassment, the continuous harassment, of my three daughters. Crazy people, you know, they know who they are, they know where they live, they know their phone number, they know where they work. It infuriates me. “
Koppel said: “Let’s talk about us, America. Here we are, we have 4% of the world population. There were two million deaths worldwide. If we had our share, we would have 80,000.”
“Right.”
“This is very … we have five times this number. ”
“Right.”
“We have been an abject failure, Tony.”
“Uh, huh. Yes. The reasons for that, Ted, I don’t think I can articulate them all, but some of them stood out to me because I lived for them. You can’t have mixed messages. You can’t have the politicization of public health messages. I mean, the idea that wearing a mask or not became a political statement? This makes it very difficult to implement a good public health measure ”.
Koppel said, “You have a very expressive face. And there is a moment – you will know instantly what I am talking about – in the White House press room. I want you to finally reveal what went through your head during that briefing.”
“Well,” said Fauci, “I think you are referring to when we were in that situation where we are talking about hydroxychloroquine”:
President Trump: “It can work, it may not work. I feel good about it. It’s just that, just a feeling. You know, smart guy.”
“And he was there talking about it and I just, I think I was like that (put his hand on his face).”
“Yes.”
“I instinctively did. And I was kind of saying to myself, Oh my gosh!, and unfortunately this has become the image that has spread throughout the world. “
Jabin Botsford / The Washington Post by Getty Images
“People have reached a point where they don’t understand this about President Trump: he can really be an extraordinarily charming man,” said Koppel.
“Yes. You are right,” said Fauci. “He is a charismatic person. I got along very, very well with him. But I had no pleasure in having to correct false statements in the sphere of medicine and science.”
Fauci: “I’m not sure what the president was referring to …”
“It pissed, I think, your team, your loyal team, in some ways even more than it pissed you off. So that’s when things started going in the wrong direction.”
President Trump: “He has a high approval rating. So why don’t I have a high approval rating with respect – and with the government – for the virus?”
“So the relationship got a little bit worn out. And then, when I saw him in the Oval Office, he acted like everything was fine.
“And then, we had that famous moment when people shouted ‘Fauci by fire! Fauci of fire! ‘ and he said ‘Hey, this is not a bad idea. I think I will do that. “
President Trump at a November 1 rally: “Don’t tell anyone, but let me wait a little after the election. He’s wrong in many ways. He’s a good man, but he’s wrong in many things.”
Koppel asked, “With more consistent leadership, we could have saved many lives. Is that a fair statement?”
“Yes, I believe so,” replied Fauci. “I mean, I think if we had done the public health messages – from the top right to the people in the trenches – they were consistent, things could have been different. In fact, I’m sure they would have been different.”
It is a measure of Tony Fauci’s durability that, at the age of 80, he has just taken on a new title, working for Joe Biden – his seventh president – as his primary medical advisor.
“What we will see in the coming months is much more of a coordinated and synergistic partnership between the federal government and the states,” said Fauci. “So I believe that we will see a change in attitude when the federal government and states start to work much more together, as opposed to ‘You are on your own’.”
“Yes, but, I mean, you’ve already spoken and experienced your own regret, the poison of partisanship that exists. It won’t go away, Tony.”
“Well, no, it is not. What, we are averaging about 200,000 to 300,000 infections per day; about 3,000 to 4,000 deaths per day? I mean, you have to look at these numbers and say, ‘We have to do something different. ‘”
Koppel said: “Your first big challenge will be getting the vaccines in your arms.”
“At the moment, things are improving; but they are going to improve a lot because President Biden has made it very clear that this is his main priority. You know that the established goal, which I believe to be entirely achievable, is to have 100 million people vaccinated in the first 100 days … primary and reinforcement. “
“In 100 days?”
“Yes Yes.”
“Do you realize that you are preparing for disaster if you do not meet that goal?” asked Koppel.
“Sure, and that’s one of the things that was refreshing in one of the first meetings we had with President Biden and Vice President Harris, is that he said, ‘We can have setbacks. But you know when that happens what are we going to do “We are not going to point fingers. We are not going to blame people. We are not going to hide anything. We will be completely transparent and honest and try to fix it.”
“We’ve had four years, Tony, from – from the top – undermining confidence in all of our institutions: intelligence, FBI, media, science. This has been a pandemic of its own kind, hasn’t it?”
“Yes,” said Fauci. “And we have to fix it. We need it. Because the country is at stake.”
“Do you have any idea how to start? There is no vaccination for that.”
“No, there is no vaccination. But I think we may have to continue to show by example that being united is much, much better than being divisive. Because the division really failed. I mean, it failed in every way.”
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Story produced by Dustin Stephens. Editor: Steven Tyler.