In 2017, Tess Barker and Barbara Gray released a podcast, “Britney’s Gram”, dedicated to humorously dissecting Britney Spears’ enigmatic Instagram account. And then #FreeBritney took off.
The hashtag’s transition to a genuine movement – made up of fans who advocate for the singer to be released from the tutelage she has been in for almost 13 years – took shape after the duo launched a special podcast episode in 2019 with a voice message worrying of someone who claimed to be a former paralegal of a lawyer who worked in Spears’ tutelage.
The fan-driven campaign is a direct line in the much-discussed documentary “Framing Britney Spears”. Part of FX’s “The New York Times Presents” documentary series, the film traces the pop star’s rise to fame and the controversial tutelage she was placed in after suffering a public meltdown in 2007-08, which she is struggling with. on court.
But just as the documentary examines the tabloid culture of the early years, the film and the wave of coverage around it – including in The Times – led some to wonder if the press simply created yet another Spears frenzy. In particular, “Framing Britney Spears” received criticism for its credulous treatment of the #FreeBritney movement that “Britney’s Gram” helped to trigger.
Barker and Gray talked to The Times about the comic origins of “Britney’s Gram”, the future of the podcast and the fight against their own role in an often toxic celebrity culture. The following conversation has been condensed and edited for clarity.
“Framing Britney Spears” really highlights the invasive media frenzy – and its built-in misogyny – that surrounded Spears and contributed to their struggles. What is your opinion about some of the mea culpas that have arisen since then?
Grey: It is something that we have been considering all this time. We’re about Britney’s age, so we were a by-product of that in our own way – kind of seeing it being thrown in front of us. I think the reaction of many people is, “We didn’t even realize how bad it was until you saw it placed right in front of you, and it’s really horrible.” And it wasn’t that long ago. We all grew up with that in our eyes every day. It’s great that there is so much reckoning going on and that people are really taking the conversation seriously. And really looking at her story as an example of how we have failed her and, I think, we have failed many women.
Barker: It has been invigorating to see the mea culpas of all the media, but I think that in cases like this, it is always important to be aware that there is an appetite for the general public that creates this market. I think you saw people [who] consuming this media also feeling a sense of responsibility and a sense of need to apologize to Britney.
You released “Britney’s Gram” in 2017, after a post on Spears’ Instagram page about his external painting. What was your goal and objective with the podcast and how did it change when you started paying more attention?
Grey: At that point, we were looking at them with a more innocent view. We knew about guardianship, but not in so many details. So, we looked at them and thought, “Oh, those are interesting. She’s basically posting memes that her aunt would post on Facebook, but it’s Britney Spears. ”I have a photo at a friend’s baby shower of all of us looking at a new one, because it was always a fun topic of conversation.
Barker: The podcast comedy, we think, would derive from taking something so mundane incredibly seriously. So, we really intended it to be, maybe not exactly a satire, but a kind of comedic shot, because we thought, “How ridiculous to dive deep into someone’s Instagram feed.” But the New York Times made a major exposure in 2016, questioning the need for guardianship. And then we started the podcast after that article. I think our audience was aware to some extent of the questionable nature of the tutelage. And I don’t think we knew it yet, but there was a certain je ne sais quoi in the posts that attracted us. We still didn’t know what we were seeing, but something was wrong. And I think that’s what forced us to look at it so closely.
The podcast – at least I will speak for myself – looked like some of the conversations that I would have friends with. We would share posts in our group chat and try to understand the randomness of it all. And then you think about the memes that would be like, “If Britney survived 2007, we can survive that”. Did you find yourself pondering, “Wait, what is my role in all of this?”
Barker: Absolutely. We found ourselves reflecting on it and yes, as Barb said, it was a comedy podcast, so we would be tearing up and be silly. And like you said, we wanted to have that feeling of just girls at brunch, talking about Britney’s Instagram. But we just didn’t understand the seriousness of the situation. And we were not fully versed in what conservatorships were. We would never have adopted that tone if we had known that there were possible violations of human rights.
Grey: I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately, because people are like, “What do you want out of this?” And it seems like when you look at old Britney interviews and stuff – that was specifically in the documentary where they were, like, “Oh, you’re a dancer or a singer”. And she’s like, “I mean, this is my job. I am really a mother. ”And from what I can tell by the interviews and stuff, I think that’s what she wants. And then for me, God, I wish for her and for so many people, we could treat them like a human being who deserves to be able to walk on the street and not be persecuted. Whether by the media or by fans. I hope this leads to another conversation about just letting people live their lives.
We see in the documentary the moment when things changed and led to the #FreeBritney movement, which was when you received that voice message.
Grey: The first [time], it was, like, Tess went to an audience alone, and there was another reporter there or two other reporters there. And then the first rallies and stuff didn’t really happen until after the voicemail. So, the voicemail went out, [and] we had a random West Hollywood rally – 20, maybe 30 people. And it grew from there. I mean, I think the first push was just that it was confirmed for so many people who have been paying attention – it was like, “Oh, OK, this is legit”.
And then voicemail just solidified that for everyone who was wondering. So, if you were already involved, it was easy to say, “OK, it’s time to act”. This movement has changed for people trying to tell everyone about it and trying to spread the word and post that sentence and go to the rallies and then you go to the court, and there are 10 more people this time.
Barker: What happened to voicemail … I mean, we’ve been in the entertainment industry for long enough that, at this point, I tend to believe rumors I’ve heard circulating for a long time. I think we learned from things like the Bill Cosby situation and the Harvey Weinstein situation. These are not things that happen overnight. These are things they have been whispering about for years. And it looks like what happened to voicemail.
I think people who pay attention to Britney are suspicious and have been talking for a long time. And so I think it kind of galvanized people into action.
You have already been contacted by [Spears’ father and conservator] Jamie [Spears] or your lawyers about the podcast or something?
Barker: Do not.
Grey: No. We were very aware that this was something that could happen. We got scared and waited for a long time and – hit the wood, you know?
There have been some posts on Britney’s Instagram since the documentary was released. What is your opinion about them?
Grey: To be honest, we don’t analyze the posts as much as we used to, because we’re kind of busy trying to research everything else that’s going on. So we don’t spend as much time criticizing them as we used to. I found the Super Bowl one interesting. It almost looked like she was trolling a little bit in a funny way. It is difficult to know why, again, there is a whole question of: “Does she post this directly? Is she writing this? “People don’t really know the answer to that.
Barker: I thought of the one with the video “Toxic”. My take on this was that the documentary did a good job of really reminding people what an icon she is and what an impressive career she had, so I thought she was kind of rummaging through it and just reminding people, “Guys, this is who I’m – ‘It’s Britney, bitch.’ ”And then maybe also agreeing with part of what the documentary was saying, which is, this is a real human here. This is not just any character. This is a human being.
What I’m thinking is, if she gets freedom, what will happen next? Because there is no way to stop the media frenzy. Is the cycle too big to be broken?
Grey: This has to be the media. They have to make that choice to leave her alone. And I hope they do. And I know it’s probably a lot to ask, but that’s what I expect.
Barker: In terms of the logistics of what is going to happen to her, we talked to ACLU lawyers and places like this. There are many other options outside of guardianship that you can offer to support someone who wants support in their lives. So I think it’s something I’d like to see happen to her, if that’s something she wants. I hope all these mea culpas of the media and the fans, I hope that when she gets loose, it will make people stop before asking for a selfie if they see her at Starbucks or asking for an autograph if they see her somewhere. I hope it all really sinks into people that this is a person and when you see them, they are strangers, just like all the other strangers you see out there. You don’t go to a random person when they’re having dinner and bothering you and you shouldn’t be doing it with Britney Spears.
Grey: And that’s why it’s so complicated, because of course there’s an entire economy there. There are people who want to read these stories, and we are all still guilty of that. I was reading something today, I found myself reading some kind of pop culture news today. And I said, “Oh no, that’s exactly what it’s all about.” It is part of our culture now. But I’ve been thinking about it a lot, how we can try to encourage a change there. And it’s like “OK, well, you can say a lot, but where is your action?”
So, what happens from here with “Britney’s Gram”?
Grey: Well, we’re actually working on something that we finally announced. We’re doing a serialized investigative documentary podcast with [Stitcher’s] Witness Docs. [“Framing Britney Spears”] it was very good, but it was just the beginning. Basically, there’s a lot more, so let’s dig into all of that.